SparkFun Forums

[DingbatCA]

I am on the hunt for a very small RFID tag. Something around 0.5~1.5MM. I am a bee keeper and want to use RFID's to keep track of my queen bee's. Any one have some good links?

The queen bee never leaves the hive, not looking for distance tracking, only verification that she is in the hive.

Sparkfun's glass capsule is about 10X to large.
http://www.sparkfun.com/products/9416

[Kamiquasi]

Have you read this paper?

"Honeybee tracking with microchips: a new methodology
to measure the effects of pesticides", Decourtye, Devillers, Pierrick Aupinel et al, Springer S&B, January 2011
http://www.springerlink.com/content/m8867170545vh52w/

They note the chip(1) and reader(2) they're using as well as methodology.
1) mic3-TAG 64-bit RO, iID2000, 13.56 MHz system, 1.0 mm x 1.6 mm x 0.5 mm; Microsensys GmbH, Erfurt, Germany
2) iID2000, 2k6 HEAD; Microsensys GmbH, Erfurt, Germany.

A similar system was used again in a later study.
Pahl M, Zhu H, Tautz J, Zhang S (2011) Large Scale Homing in Honeybees. PLoS ONE 6(5): e19669. doi:10.1371/journal.pone.0019669
http://www.plosone.org/article/info:doi ... ne.0019669

However, as you don't seem to have a need to identify particular bees for any reason, perhaps you could get away with a simpler system?

[DingbatCA]

I am looking to identify the queen bee. There are a few events that I want to know about:
1) Hive split, old queen leaves with 1/2 the worker bees
2) Queen dies, the workers will remove her body from the hive
3) Queen moves to a different hive, did not think this was possible!

I was planning on building a simple reader... Arduino, RFID reader, and a small LCD. I could go up to any of my hives and get a quick ID of the queen with out having to gear up and open the hive.

A standard hive is about 10x20in; height varies depending on type. Was looking for something I could build my self... Do not want to pay $$$$ for the RFID reader. Thank you for the links! The size is right, but they want way to much for a kit. Any other ideas?

[fll-freak]

Even with a tiny RFID tag, the distance from the reader to the tag will still need to be fairly small. Smaller than the size of your hive.

But if you have just one entrance for the hive, you could put a short range reader at the entrance and record any detections. If not, I think you will have to suit up.

Of the wall ideas...
1) Paint the queen with an IR paint and watch the entrance with an IR camera.
2) Train the queen to tweet you when she moves locations.
3) Is it possible to detect a queen from other bees using OBR (optical bee recognition) software?
4) Put a ball and chain on the queen so she can't leave!

[DingbatCA]

The queen is currently marked with bright paint. Makes her easy to spot when doing a hive inspection.

Off the wall ideas...
IR paint: Cool idea. I think having her punch her time card on the way out might be simpler.
Tweet location: Heck ya! Training will begin shortly.
OBR: Way out of my coding skill set
Ball and chain: Have you ever tried to put a ball and chain on a women?! Much less a flying poisonous woman!!!!

[Kamiquasi]

would that paint fluoresce, by any chance?
if not, could you replace it with a fluorescent paint?

if you could, then you *might* be able to set up something cheap with just that + UV LEDs + some ordinary photoresistors / phototransistors?

presuming for a moment that bees don't fluoresce much naturally and that you could get the emitter/detector rig in deep enough to be shielded from sunlight.

[Mee_n_Mac]

I recall that Bill Gates was propping up an "electronic mosquito net" for places where malaria, etc was still a problem. The reason I mention this is because they used a low powered laser to measure the wing beat frequency to target and kill only the female mosquitos (with the DEATH RAY !). Does the queen, when she exits the hive to fly away, beat at a different frequency than all other bees ? Could you use a sensitive microphone to monitor the entrance for this frequency, perhaps to trigger a webcam to catch her in her regal paint job ? Could a similar mic be put in her chamber (does the queen mostly sit around in one place laying eggs ?) to verify she's there ? It would less intrusive and less $$ than a tiny cam in the same place (assuming the bees don't wax it over or whatever bees do to odd items in their hive).

[jyoung]

Are bees disrupted by magnetic fields? I seem to recall that they are.

Anyway, if they are not, what you could do is something a hell of a lot simpler. Do bees ever take metal objects into / out of the hive? If not, you may be able to rig up a metal detector coil on the exit to the hive, and then attach a small piece of iron / rare earth magnet to the queen so that if her body passes through the exit it will trip the detector.

This won't tell you if a queen has been _added_ to the hive, but the new queen's entrance into the hive will trip the detector and therefore prompt an investigation by yourself.

[DingbatCA]

All fun ideas!

In normal conditions the queen will never leave the hive.

Bee's only carry pollen, nectar and other organics in/out of the hive. No metal. The bee's do have some form of internal compass so I would like to stay away from the magnet.

I would also like to stay away from placing tech on each hive. The cost adds up VERY fast when you have 100+ hives. Even the RFID tags get costly.

[another-dave]

The dimensions you require could be met by 0402 sized SMT parts. Soldering a 4.7uF SMT cap, back to back with a 2.7uH SMT inductor (.5mmW x 1mmL x 1mmH total); this would give you a tank circuit with a resonant frequency of 44.677KHz. Call this "the tag". After attaching the tag to the item of interest, you have to charge the tag with bursts (pulses) of RF at 44.677 KHz. The tag will absorb the RF and when the pulse stops it will radiate this RF back. You have to listen for it between the pulses you transmit, with a receiver tuned to 44.677 KHz . This is the same way the little white or black stick-on tags you find inside packages for high cost easily stolen items at walmart etc. are detected if you try and leave the store with them if the cashier hasn't disabled their tag at the register. I don't know the range the tag you make can be detected (lots of variables), but these low frequencies penetrate solids pretty well. You can try to scan the exterior to detect the tag with a transceiver, if that doesn't work you could always scan the exit, (like a store). Don't know the effects of RF on bees either.

[DingbatCA]

Short term RF is not a problem.

We are getting closer! Still need the ID part of the RF tag.

[another-dave]

Short term RF is not a problem.

We are getting closer! Still need the ID part of the RF tag.

Why? I'm not into bees but if there is only one queen wearing the only tag in the hive why do you need an ID?

[DingbatCA]

Queen tracking. I am not talking about long range radio tracking, just the queen in the local hives.

There are a few key events that I need the ID for:
Queen moving to a different hive. I did not think this was possible! But I have had queens move hives on me this year.
Hive splitting. At the start of each year I split the hive. Take 1/2 the bees and place them into a different hive.
Wild hive split, where the bee's choose to make a swarm and fly away. I try to capture these and place them into a empty hive body.

The ID would be VERY nice. I know the tech is out there, I just have to find where to buy it.

[another-dave]

sorry, can't help you. Anything I know of that combine RF and intelligence are bigger than a bee (rfPIC) you might be able to get a few different freqs out of SMT LC tanks depending on component Q but nothing of the variety you need.

[DingbatCA]

I need to start keeping giant space bees...