SparkFun Forums

[Toradore]

im trying to build a large scale aircraft carrier that is fully functional. launch aircraft, fire guns and such. And im trying to work out a control system. has to be wireless as ship will be out in open waters and underwater debris would snag lines. plus i do not like wired ones IFI VEX Pro Victor 884 and 885 the speed controllers i will be using. so i need a a hub to control all of them plus the other servo's "estimated at 50-60" and small motors "estimated around 20".

What i need to work on at this moment. is how to control the ESC's and communicate with a laptop on shore. would also like to keep expansion room available to start adding other systems with out having to install more parts immediately. so for first step i just need to communicate at range and control those ESC's. I'll be adding more systems as i finish each step. Thier will be a lot of systems added over time. the ship is 18 foot x 5 foot flight deck. and 10 foot x 3 foot hull. with 2-3 foot depth of hull.

Im trying to keep this simplistic and cheap as possible tough order i know but can try lol

[esklar81]

Toradore,

To select a controller, you need to determine, at least:

1. number and types of outputs
2. speed with which outputs have to respond to external control signals
3. what, if any, information is to be stored onboard
4. what, if any, processing is to be done onboard (For example, do you want to send a rotational speed setting for each motor, or do you want to send a heading (or direction) and vessel speed setting and have the controller use onboard sensors and the heading (or direction) and vessel speed settings to control the motors and rudder?)

To select a communications system, one needs a few key data, including:

1. range
2. data rate (net delivery of bits of instructions per second, which is derived from the number of things to be set and the rate at which you need to be able to change them)
3. interferences
4. required reliability
5. type of controller interface at each end (You've told us you'll have a "laptop" at one end, but not what's at the other end.)

Also, I suggest you poke around for information on "autonomous vehicle" and "UAV".

Happy Hunting,
Eric

[Toradore]

ok to answer a few of those points.

Range- 150feet. 300 is what im hoping for but understand would probably cost a lot to do.

Information on board- i dont plan for any. i plan to do it on laptop. i forgot to mention that i was debating installing laptop on ship to recieve signals.

Sensors- Only safety ones to monitor for fire or water in hull. Possibly some heat sensors to ensure parts are not over heating.

Speed with which outputs have to respond to external control signals- Well for most part i don't need instant responses. a millisecond or so delay is acceptable. most systems wont need to react instantly. though a faster response on some would make things easier. like aiming the guns and firing. But im not sure what signal speed i should aim for.

processing is to be done onboard- that would be laptop if needed. not sure as some of the parts ive seen have inboard OS and processors. As for steering ill be controlling that from shore. If i find a inexpensive manner to add GPS or such on board i might. but as of now its line of sight.

Interferences- no idea what might be out their. i will be taking it to a large river. and on occasion random lakes.

Data Rate- now thats is good point. i figured a wireless network between laptops would have enough bandwidth to cover all. there wont be a lot of constant transfer as i figure. well would go up a lot if i do add the camera's with live feeds. but most controls are temp signals. not much will be constant or so i think.

Required Reliability- Well if i do convert this to a crewed model would have to be very reliable. I would like to use it for charity drives locally. and kids getting stuck out on river not good. or if fire starts..... So i want to add safety systems and system monitoring.

Lol i keep having to look up new types of models at each turn. hoping to finally set on one and stay on that forum. On hand full of forums now. was hoping this was last top

Number and types of outputs- As in servo's and such? well that's a whole other ball game their. Since they will depend on cost and usability of parts prior to each step i can't guess. but if it helps I'll list some of the functions i want and # of servo's each will require.

Aft Propulsion: 1x- ESC " robotmarketplace.com/products/IFI-V885.html "
Steering System: 2x- ESC " robotmarketplace.com/products/IFI-V884.html "
Spot Lights: 7 total. 1- on/off switch each and 1-servo for 90-145 degree rotation Each " working out servo that's cheapest but can handle the lights movement. As well as heat. will go LED if can find right ones.
Guns: 24- 1- light servo each and a firing mechanism.
Elevator to lift planes- 1- sail winch servo- medium to heavy duty to lift planes to deck.
Hull side doors- 4- each with 1 door servo and 1 push arm servo to launch "push" a boat out.
Sub door- 1- this one is most far fetched of my ideas. will hopefully be able to launch one from under ship but looks like to much design work so far.
Camera's- 5 "estimate only" 3 with single axis rotation "1 servo". 2 with full axis rotation."2 servo's"

[Toradore]

Hmm im going to try this. i am going to list ship stats and systems. and use that to get peoples opinions as to what to use. "ya ya cheaters way to get others to design it for me " But i think this might be best way. as i dont have the back ground to correctly gauge what type/size parts i would need.

Flight deck- 18' x 5'
Hull- 16' x 3' x 2-3'
camera's 5. 2 under deck to see under deck to drive planes to there slots. 1 for flight deck. 2 for steering
Guns- hoping for 4x 6" quads and 24x 2.5" duel barrel " with duel axis controls. will be changing as i find cheaper ones. as stands ones im finding to high by far. but hope to find cheaper as time goes. heres link for reference sake. strikemodels.com/products/cannon-big-gun/
4 hull bay doors. "estimate" each 2 1/2' x 10"
4 hull bay launching systems. just a arm that has a magnet on end to stabilize boat and pull it in or out. bay will be flooded
Elevator- 1 probly around 12-18" travel depends on planes.
Trolling motors- 4 bass pro shops prowler T30's each with a ESC.
Rudder- None steering done by 2 front motors.
Lights- 6 full axis. "2 servo's each"

so going by that i need to be able to control 56 items as it stands...ok that is more then i thought. but will be adding more systems as time goes on. so not much of the above going in at first. will be using 1/56 or smaller aircraft. going for modern styled ones. but haven't picked one yet.

[Toradore]

Hmm i can not seem to find much assistance with this project on all the forums im on. so if decided to try another tract. I'm going to post the parts i plan to use. and ask how i can connect them. and what to use to get it to communicate with my laptop on shore. i want to use a old laptop and USB game controller to control the ship and its functions.
ESC
http://www.robotmarketplace.com/products/IFI-V885.html x1
http://www.robotmarketplace.com/products/IFI-V884.html x2
SERVO's -
http://www.robotmarketplace.com/product ... M1230.html x60 "with possible upgrade to higher number"
http://www.robotmarketplace.com/product ... 3755S.html x 24
SWITCHES
Havent found any non-manual ones that do not cost a fortune each. will need around 12-15 once i find some thing. need it to control onboard lights and such.

Now i need to find a way to control all of this from a laptop and USB game controller from shore. need 250 foot range "will also use this during 4th of July to launch preset fireworks off of it." game controller is to steer ship as that's easiest way to do it comfortably. laptop on shore will control guns, lights, and other features.

[Toradore]

How do i attach servo's to a control like the Arduino mega boards? im going to be using analog servo's. boards claim they have so many channels on them 6-54 for example. but how many of those need to be used per servo to control rotation in both directions? i expect that the servo's will have to be directly connected to the batteries. but seen most boards "up to 3 servo's" directly connected "all 3 wires" to the board. if need 3 channels per servo seems bit high. i was thinking only need one to control it from controller.

Can some one give me the basics of connecting servo to controller please? i think i understand it but want to be sure so i dont buy way to many or to few controllers

[waltr]

Check in on the SoR forum and tutorials.
http://www.societyofrobots.com/robotforum/index.php

There is much info to do what you need on that site. In particular check the Webbotlib for control code.

With the number of servos you plan, you want to power the servos from a separate battery. Only the control line (and the ground reference) to the servos need to be connected to the processor. One servo only needs one control 'channel' from the processor.

[Toradore]

Ok i figured only control line went to board. Ground needs to as well? hmm does make sense. would i use same ground point on the board or separate for each? Didn't think board had that many grounds. Thank you the info explains a lot. was thinking all 3 had to be connect at first untill started to think it over.

[esklar81]

Toradore,
Strictly speaking, most controller boards have only one ground, but may have more than one point at which to connect to it. For what you're doing, you'll need to create wide buses of power and ground.

I suggest you take a look at what's available for controlling large numbers of servos, such as this.

For devices that you need to signal only intermittently, such as firing guns or triggering fireworks, a device such as this might save you a few controller pins.

Eric

[Toradore]

Opps i miss worded it. i know only one ground. meant multiple spots to connect at each pin sorry. Hmm i like that mondo Matrix. 64 servo's would be just what i needed. Shield looks easy to use also. but for now ill be under 64 servo's. so the mondo looks great. now how would i control that board from shore? would be controlling from laptop on shore still. though thinking of switching the ESC's to a RC normal controller

[esklar81]

I believe this is the intended controller for the MondoMatrix servo board. There are other MondoMatrix boards, such as the PowerMatrix, that might be of interest to you.

You should have the same set of choices for your wireless connection as you'd have for any Arduino. Frankly, I'm not a good resource for selecting wireless communications hardware, but it's hardly a new topic around here, so dive in to the forum archives.

Eric

[Toradore]

hmm seems i thought i was stalled to soon. with further conversations i have come up with new direction to keep going yay!

my thing is as i move along i want to be sure next step will mesh with prior step. which is why i stalled when i hit high cost for controllers. I want to make sure control system is expandable easily to include future servo's and switches. Don't want to go along one line of construction to then discover to expand i need to go another way. But with research and help i think i have a cheap way to communicate with laptop on land and systems on ship. and only costs $300. but can handle over 64 servo's. was looking at all the normal 12+ channel RC controllers and freaked over price but here's my com system as is now. and its easily expandable further.

www.sparkfun.com/products/9971 x1
www.sparkfun.com/products/9970 x1
www.sparkfun.com/products/8687 x1
www.sparkfun.com/products/8690 x2
www.sparkfun.com/products/9132 x1

thats around $285.00 which is acceptable of course need to include jumpers and wires. but that won't cost much. with some wires its $300 which falls with in budget marks.

and other items im using are:
www.robotmarketplace.com/products/IFI-V885.html x1
www.robotmarketplace.com/products/IFI-V884.html x2
http://www.robotmarketplace.com/prod...-GPMM1230.html x60
http://www.robotmarketplace.com/prod...HRC33755S.html x12

That's final servo count i am expecting. but is NOT what i am installing at launch. just a idea on what i planed to use. and total for those parts is $785 not to bad considering that amount. and first 2 parts each highly expensive. servo count can and will change so this just estimate. so so far project final cost $1070 plus shipping. and wires ill have to price locally. So that's still with in my original hoped for budget of $1,500. will need to add in hull cost and for got the 4 motors lol motors $400 total and hull will cost around $500 i guess. could be higher or lower for hull. need to hit home depot and check prices. but other wise that's.... $1970 hmm not to bad over first budget. and i did think i was under budgeting.

also need to find inexpensive on/off switches with remote control. found a few but their around $30-40 or so EACH

And of course a control program on laptop and im ready to start. No im not as experienced as you think. I wish i was though Smiley no i am doing research as well as taking what people are telling me and learning as i go. but ive always been able to catch on to new things quickly.

So all in all im back on track it seems. hope no more surprised plan changes lol but as they say all good plans and face of contact... lol hope to be starting construction soon. snow seems to be melting will post pics as i go. though disclaimer. ship will be done before i start detailing work. so will look a little crude until then. more interested in functionality first

[esklar81]

Toradore,

What are you planning to switch with "inexpensive on/off switches with remote control. found a few but their around $30-40 or so EACH"? Also, by "remote control", do you mean a separate wireless connection, or do you mean controlled by the Mondo system? There are lots of ways of switching things, some of which are quite cheap. So, if you provide a bit more information, perhaps we can point you in a useful direction or two.

What do you plan to drive with the large controllers? (Your last two links don't appear to work.)

Eric

[Toradore]

Opps i forgot to include that information. what i want to control with the switches are- airsoft guns firing, running lights, a fake radar dish with continuous rotation, spot lights "ships scale", and a fog horn to warn of ships presences as i will be out in public area. Though very few people go there. their is the chance that a ship or fisherman might pass.

http://www.robotmarketplace.com/product ... M1230.html
As for links ya for some reason it only linked part of it. ill post here. the small servos are for mobile lights and small gun turrets as well as bay doors and 2ndary ship launch system. as well as locks to grab helicopters runners to keep in place so dont fall of ship. also a radar dish. and few other small scale moving parts like cameras "if i find live feed ones cheap that work with my system."

http://www.robotmarketplace.com/product ... 3755S.html
The large servos are for the main guns. 12-24 of them. depends on once ship hull/flight deck finished how much usable space is left for them. but probably 12 guns or so. with left/right, up/down rotation.

Going to do bit more research to ensure i get right servos. so might get bigger or even small depending on out come. most things wont need high speed. so need torque not speed. working on making the parts lite enough so smaller servos will work. as might have to use digital ones as for the guns not to sure as only ones ive found on http://www.strikemodels.com/products/cannon-big-gun/ for example very pricey. there way to high PSI for me anyway. im going for airsoft rounds instead of metal BB's. if theirs a ricochet plastic be a lot safer anyway. Though BB's would make big splash and look cool their just not safe.



Also does any one know of some paintball guns that would work? as in just firing mechanism and ammo storage? need to be able to fire multiple shots with out having to reload them manually. and the BB ones to costly.

[esklar81]

Toradore,

Apparently I didn't work my question precisely enough. When I asked what you are looking to switch, I meant voltage, current and load type (resistive or inductive).

If you use LEDs, rather than incandescent lamps, you can probably switch them for far less than $30/point. (For example, the MondoMatrix LEDMatrix will drive 192 LEDs @ 20 mA for $95. 20 mA is probably not enough for spotlights, but may well be for running lights. With that many outputs, you could probably do a decent job of patterning the flight deck.) LEDs are more expensive initially, but they draw much less power (reducing the battery size requirement) and should outlast incandescent lamps (particularly in "rough service"). You might want to take a look at the high-power LEDs and lenses for them that SparkFun offers to see if they might meet your spotlight needs.

For larger loads, an optoisolator and a 5 A @ 30 Vdc relay can be had for $3.20. It might be much more convenient, though, to use a MondoMatrix PowerMatrix, which provides a similar price per point ($90/32 points) and includes a means of connecting to the system you're already considering without having to add any subordinate controller. Unfortunately, I didn't find a current or power rating for the PowerMatrix; it's rated 3 - 12 Vdc. Even if you had to use external relays driven by the PowerMatrix to drive larger loads, the PowerMatrix might be worthwhile as a means of simplifying your construction and providing fan-out and isolation.

If you haven't already, I suggest you read through the MondoMatrix site. Among other things, it confirms that you can run several output interface boards from a single controller, on a single RS-485 network.

If you've been finding pricing of $30 - 40/switch, I suspect you've been looking at parts intended for RC aircraft. As size and weight are critical for that application, there's a sharp premium for those parts. However, you're building a surface vehicle which, it sounds to me, will have plenty of space below deck for control electronics. (Out of curiosity, just how many pounds of lead-acid battery are you planning to use to fill the keel? Or, were you thinking of including a small fission reactor? )

Eric