SparkFun Forums

[rosco]

we use these radio transmitters to track our birds sometimes (not often, but when it happens, it is a big loss):
http://www.mikesfalconry.com/group.asp?grp=259

the problems with radio telemetry are many. topography dependence

if a similar device could be made to track by satellite, the sport would be helped greatly. i'd guess the person developing it would benefit greatly as well.

to a non-techie, this seems possible. the units that came in cell phones before mobile mapping software was on them, were probably smaller stand-alone units. i could be wrong.

ideas?

[rosco]

i haven't gotten a reply to this thread. is it in the "GPS" section?

[mbavaro77]

Hi rosko,

The market for wildlife trackers is rich.

If you didn't already, you may visit the following websites (I am sure there are others):
http://www.telonics.com/wildlife.php
http://www.biotrack.co.uk
http://celltracktech.com
http://www.technosmart.eu
http://www.telemetrysolutions.com
http://www.pathtrack.co.uk

These are mostly standard GPS receivers with either data-logging or cellular/radio connection.
The smallest GPS with data logging (AFAIK) is the Skytraq Venus638:
http://www.sparkfun.com/products/10919
Whereas the smallest standalone GPS (AFAIK) is the Locosys S4-0606:
http://www.locosystech.com/product.php?zln=en&id=68

Another approach is to use Argos rather than GPS (at the expense of a bit of accuracy):
http://www.argos-system.org/

Finally another interesting concept is then use ISM pseudolites, where you don't have receivers but clever active RFID tags and software defined radio receivers doing the triangulation (AFAIK < 10km range), see here:
http://ojs.academypublisher.com/index.p ... le/view/24
I designed one of these lately (it shall use a 16cm wire as antenna):
https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/h ... directlink

IMHO, which system is best depends on your specific requirements.
I hope this helps.

Cheers,
Michele

[rosco]

Michelle,
Wow! almost all of that is new to me. i've never heard of argos and i wonder if its accuracy would be good enough.
i've tons of questions.

requirements: it must be real-time and accurate to find exact location of bird quickly. it must be small enough (show in photo (16cm antenna is fine). it must be light enough (for me i'd like less than 8g total weight including power source). power must last for days. signal can be put out every few minutes but constant is best it must be affordable (an entire set-up, including both transmitter and receiver, if it is separate from gps capable phone under $500 would sell).

someone told me cellular signals won't work. cell service is limited in too many areas. the gov't signals that involved triangulation had issues too.

falconers on nafex.net, at least a month ago, were convinced there wasn't a GPS set-up that would fit our application. why haven't these companies marketed there or with falconry vendors.

what is different about falconry and wildlife tracking is the biologist only needs to know general where-abouts of the animal. we want to know which tree and in real-time so we can call the bird to our gauntlet and go home.

i can only make calls in the US and i rarely get a response when submitting forms to companies requesting information. but i'd love to know more and see if there is something out there that can be brought to the falconry community. loosing a bird would be a heartache to last a lifetime.

[teekay_tk]

Hi

Please note that argos transmitters cost $2-3K plus 200 to 500 yearly argos fees. The Argos transmitters provide accuracy of several kilo meters. There are argos transmitters that have a built-in GPS but they cost even more. The lightest Argos tranmitter is 9 grams. You get a location once a day or even in some cases once every few days.

This is good for migration studies but not to track live animal.

[rosco]

teeay_tk, et al,
thank you for your input. and again, i apologize for not being familiar with this subject.

what keeps going through my head is how small some of the cell phones are. these phones can and are tracked by police when a missing person is involved. the size of the unit putting out the signal can't be that big. surely, a small gps tracking device can be used.

i'm not suggesting one would tape a phone onto a raptor, but use the necessary parts only to make one.

it is also hard for me to believe that security companies don't track people with stuff much better than is seen on James Bond movies.

i know that this can be done in my heart.

Thanks for any help!
rosco!

[teekay_tk]

As device gets smaller it get more and more expensive to make it if you are not going to be mass producing it in milliions

Also the power requirement becomes more and more difficult. The phones we use transmit at 2 or 3 watts pulses. The battery thus is one of the heaviest part of the phone. For example, in my 110 gram phone the battery alone weighs 35 grams.

anyway , just to cheer you up...... http://www.sparkfun.com/news/415

[mbavaro77]

Hi,

With regards to the post above, just to give you another idea:
http://www.telit.com/en/products/gsm-gp ... show&p=109

Cheers,
Michele

[rosco]

hmmm,
thanks for your replies. about a year ago, there were several people on the irc channel that said they could do this but didn't have the time b/c of school restraints. the idea was that nothing was on the market but could be put together. i'd guess the reason it isn't found on the market is privacy issues. people would be tracking other people with malicious intent. or intent to invade privacy.
hnmm

[teekay_tk]

There are lot of issues to consider. Privacy can be one, my feeling is that energy requirements will be the biggest restriction. Most mobile systems are designed to be always ON. Also Any manufacturer of the device will need to put in usb port and charger, buttons and leds. Get it certified by FCC. have a water proof enclosure that is also light weight. the list of requirements of a commercial device are much different than that of a research device.
Also, as far as I am aware there is restriction in the US on putting a GSM device on an airborne platform. (this could be a bird or a balloon or RC plane etc).
I know people have been putting these on birds but that does not mean its legal to do so.