SparkFun Forums

[Chupa]

i got this press n peel blue stuff after seeing this tutorial on making your own PCBs for projects. http://aliben.wordpress.com/2006/12/02/41/

I cant get this to work for the life of me. the toner on the pnp paper does not want to transfer to the copper. i just tried for the 3rd time and failed. Does anyone have any experience with this stuff? any tips or anything?

[Cannibal]

Sorry to hear it isn't working out for you.... I'd recommend batchpcb since they do quality work.

[Chupa]

yea im looking into that now. just sucks cus it seems like i wasted 30$ for this "magic paper" that it was made out to be, and another 20$ on drill bits.

a question about the batchpcb. ive already submitted my design (done in eagle cad) and have gone thought that process. i was thrown off by the step 1 of 3 page after you submit the zip file. it asks for all the stuff then it says Layer 2 Copper:
Layer 3 Copper:
and asks you to pick the associated files. Does this mean if leave them both at Not Used it will only be a single layer board? or do i need to add the file for the bottom layer under Layer 2 Copper for a double sided board? /confused

[propellanttech]

That is a good question.....but no if you do not want a 4 layer board...just leave the layers alone.


If you are doing a single or dual sided board...it will put the layers in the correct place.

Hope this helps,

James L

[beebop]

the toner on the pnp paper does not want to transfer to the copper.

That's because you aren't cleaning the copper well enough. Use a fine scotch brite pad, then wipe with acetone until you don't see any residue. Also be careful when you handle the PnP, not to get your acid and oil covered fingers on the toner surface.
I got myself a GBC laminator to fix the PnP to the copper, and it works really well. You can find some good tips here:
http://www.pulsarprofx.com/

[wiml]

I haven't used the PnP brand but it has a good reputation. I haven't had trouble doing toner-trasfer with other kinds of paper.

Is the toner not transferring at all, or is it just not transferring cleanly?

[emf]

I cant get this to work for the life of me. the toner on the pnp paper does not want to transfer to the copper. i just tried for the 3rd time and failed. Does anyone have any experience with this stuff? any tips or anything?

I use the other brand too, but I'd expect the PnP stuff to work just as well. With the stuff I use, the only things I can think of that would completely prevent transfer are: not using a laser printer/copier, not having the iron hot enough, or printing on the wrong side of the paper.

If you're getting partial transfer, you can try cleaning the board better, changing the iron's heat setting or ironing time, altering the amount of pressure when ironing, or moving the iron around. Also, crank up the darkness setting on your printer, shake the toner cartridge a little before printing, and if your printer has very good alignment you could run it through the printer twice to increase the amount of toner deposited.

[Chupa]

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That's because you aren't cleaning the copper well enough. Use a fine scotch brite pad, then wipe with acetone until you don't see any residue. Also be careful when you handle the PnP, not to get your acid and oil covered fingers on the toner surface. 

Of the 5 or 6 times ive tried it now, 1 time I used 600 grit sandpaper with a jitterbug sander. The copper literally had a mirror finish when i was done. I used regular tap water to clean the dust and stuff off, not acetone... maybe thats a problem? All other times i just used a brillo pad and scrubed the hell outa it. But again just used tap water to clean it. Always handled them on the edges, never got prints on them.

Is the toner not transferring at all, or is it just not transferring cleanly?

I use the other brand too, but I'd expect the PnP stuff to work just as well. With the stuff I use, the only things I can think of that would completely prevent transfer are: not using a laser printer/copier, not having the iron hot enough, or printing on the wrong side of the paper.

Eh, my best attempt was today and i guess it was pretty good. It was just some random thing i printed out because i have given up on any real circuit (for now) and am just focusing on getting something at least. If it had been a real circuit it defiantly wouldn't had worked without major rework and solder spots etc.

Im trying to find a good middle ground with the iron still. THe wool setting docent seem to be hot enough like the directions call for and sometimes i set it too high and the PNP just ends up shriveling.

If you're getting partial transfer, you can try cleaning the board better, changing the iron's heat setting or ironing time, altering the amount of pressure when ironing, or moving the iron around. Also, crank up the darkness setting on your printer, shake the toner cartridge a little before printing, and if your printer has very good alignment you could run it through the printer twice to increase the amount of toner deposited.

a lota the times i put almost my full weight on the iron. i have the printer set to 600DPI

Ill have another go at it tomorrow. I had really given up after my last failed attempt today but your suggestions have given me a 2nd wind. Ill try some of stuff you guys said. Thank you!

[beebop]

I think your problem may be the water. I think this will oxidize the surface of the copper immediately, and prevent the toner from sticking. Try the acetone, or at least rubbing alcohol, and you should get better results.
You might try the 'rolling pin' technique which is shown on the link I gave you yesterday. That will help with your ironing.
Keep going, my first boards didn't turn out very well, but practice makes perfect.

[leon_heller]

Try the Yahoo Homebrew-PCB group; several people there have got toner transfer to work. I get excellent results using an inkjet printer and photo-etch.

Leon

[snappy]

Just FYI, I use ink-jet photo paper (bubble-jet) in a laser printer. I clean the copper with scotchbrite pads and wipe with automotive paint reducer that is weaker than acetone. With the iron on second hottest setting, I then iron on the toner to the PCB with and soak in warm water for 30 minutes to loosen the paper from the toner. Then slowly peel back. I get repeatable results, except once with one of our other printers for some reason. I know if I can "feel" the toner thickness on the printout I will get excellent results. I got this method off the internet and I was impressed. I guess the only difference with pnp method is this way is a bit cheaper but you have to soak the the toner from the paper and the end result has very slight roughness to the edges of the traces when under a magnifying glass. I use EPSON glossy photopaper (for ink-jets) from Staples. I'll find and post the link I learned from if anyone is interested.

[Chupa]

well i tried another 3 times today using acetone to clean the board before having a go at it. the first 2 were same ol same ol. the toner just dosent want to leave the PNP. I tried the iron on all different temp settings. even up to the point where the PNP begins to melt. I checked that site you linked and saw that they said they have problems with brother laser printers, which is what i am using. I wonder if im having the same problem... I suspect the toner they use melts at some above average temp or something? So i set up for 1 last attempt. i was gona move as fast as i could from printing it on the paper to ironing it. I printed the thing, slapped it on the copper and started ironing right away. At first it was looking good. most of the toner transfered to the copper nicely. I got excited and took away the paper i had over the PNP and tried ironing directly on the PNP. Then something happened... the toner transfered from the coper back onto the PNP... and it turned into the same thing ive been doing for 3 days now.

I don't know what to do anymore. this is tunning into a nightmare.

[leon_heller]

Try a different printer! When I played with toner transfer I used an HP IIIp, they definitely work OK.

Leon

[beebop]

You could also photo copy your layout if you don't have access to another laser printer. (Just make sure it's not a brother photo copier!)

[Chupa]

heh all the other printers in this house are ink jet.

ill have to try one at the office tomarow i guess